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Updating of many devices remotely
#1
Hi,
What would be your recommendation when it comes to keeping many NetPI devices, spread out over large areas, up to date? I would not want to connect to each of them manually to update them, but I would like to be able to control when an update occurs and also test it out beforehand on a local device. Is that something that you support now, or will support in the future?
So the question is two-fold:
* Can Portainer be used to manage containers on many devices (grouped somehow) at the same time?
* How about the OS updates?
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#2
Well Johannes,

two things need to be said.

1.We have the product netPI I would call is more a consumer product. Basically it is a Docker Host only, not more not less. With the coming firmware version we will be updating portainer to the very latest version and then customer can may use the official API https://portainer.readthedocs.io/en/stable/API.html to do anything a manual mouse click can do today. This allows you to update indeed all your netPI containers running. Of course you need to know their IP address at least and in case of a real remote access also a routing path over the internet.

Grouping devices and managing multiple Docker Host devices is called Docker Swarm. This is not supported by netPI cause it needs console access to create a docker manager and certificates and then nodes. Portainer can manage already swarmed nodes, but not creating them.

At the current stage there is no plan to change the update procedure for the OS as we have established it today using an USB stick locally. Since 90% of the software is in containers, an OS Kernel update that embeds a security risk for example is really rare.

2. We have a consistent management system with our coming software release for our professional edge devices under schedule. On those machines Microsofts Azure IoT Edge is running together with a management system in the cloud. When released then this is exactly what you are looking for. The devices register themselves in the cloud, you can see them, deploy software on them (by the way Microsofts IoT Edge is Docker based) and do also OS updates.

3. At higher quantities you can get netPI without SD card and you have the whole software under your control. Then it is up to you what you realize.

Regards
Armin
You never fail until you stop trying.“, Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

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#3
(October-31st-2018, 11:57 AM)Armin@netPI Wrote: Well Johannes,

two things need to be said.

1.We have the product netPI I would call is more a consumer product. Basically it is a Docker Host only, not more not less. With the coming firmware version we will be updating portainer to the very latest version and then customer can may use the official API https://portainer.readthedocs.io/en/stable/API.html to do anything a manual mouse click can do today. This allows you to update indeed all your netPI containers running. Of course you need to know their IP address at least and in case of a real remote access also a routing path over the internet.

Grouping devices and managing multiple Docker Host devices is called Docker Swarm. This is not supported by netPI cause it needs console access to create a docker manager and certificates and then nodes. Portainer can manage already swarmed nodes, but not creating them.

At the current stage there is no plan to change the update procedure for the OS as we have established it today using an USB stick locally. Since 90% of the software is in containers, an OS Kernel update that embeds a security risk for example is really rare.

2. We have a consistent management system with our coming software release for our professional edge devices under schedule. On those machines Microsofts Azure IoT Edge is running together with a management system in the cloud. When released then this is exactly what you are looking for. The devices register themselves in the cloud, you can see them, deploy software on them (by the way Microsofts IoT Edge is Docker based) and do also OS updates.

3. At higher quantities you can get netPI without SD card and you have the whole software under your control. Then it is up to you what you realize.

Regards
Armin

Interesting! Do you have any more information about #2? Like expected release date, price models, and if it will be possible to host the management system by ourselves etc.
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#4
We will be introducing the new software structure at the SPS trade show in Nuremberg in about 3 weeks. Maybe you have a chance to visit us at our booth. Then the relevant people will explain you all details.

The edge devices I am speaking about we are currently offering with additionally functions next to Docker only (like netPI) are presented here: https://www.hilscher.com/de/produkte/pro...tiot-edge/?

Those devices are sold through normal Hilscher sales channel and they are supported also separately by our hotline team and not by this forum. I am not that deep involved in how the whole software will work in future and saw just some PPT slides, but for me this is the ideal combination of hardware and software and maintaining over the internet.


Thx
Armin
You never fail until you stop trying.“, Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

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#5
Thank you for the reply, the trade show sounds interesting.
Am I understanding you correctly that the NetPIs are part of the product lineup that will have the new software structure that will allow remote management of the devices?
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#6
(November-1st-2018, 10:43 AM)Johannes Wrote: Am I understanding you correctly that the NetPIs are part of the product lineup that will have the new software structure that will allow remote management of the devices?

Sorry for this misunderstanding. This new software structure will not be realized on netPI. netPI is defined today as a Docker Host only and this is how we will be continuing its story.

If you dig into details of the Edge Gateway platforms I sent the reference to our homepage to we are selling the same netPI hardware as Edge Gateway: https://www.hilscher.com/de/produkte/pro...-en-repns/?. Just the preinstalled software is different. For this Edge Gateway we will be rolling out the new software structure.

So netPI will remain a bit a "manually manageable" device more or less.

Thx
Armin
You never fail until you stop trying.“, Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

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#7
I see. Thank you for the clarification!
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